ASSISTANCE WITH MONITOR CALIBRATION

[pontiac1940]

Okay, so I got that new 4K monitor a few weeks ago and pleased with it. (I have not bothered to spend $300+ on a calibration device. I had a pretty decent calibration kit a few years ago, and could not see the value.)
I recently made a few calendars (at a commercial printer) and pleased with the image quality .. mainly they were what my screen looked like. Happy with the calendar image quality. 
But I just made a few prints (at a lab) of my wife's quilts and not pleased with the results. This lab is usually spot on. 
So I'd like to know what you see when you look at these images. Of these five copies of the same photo which displays the "best" exposure on your screen?   
Just looking for a simple answer vs info about calibration and matching image to the exact lab printer. Thanks! 

Which exposure looks best to you: A, B, C, D or E? (Mixed the order on purpose.) 

Thanks for you input. Much appreciated.

[caspa]

I think you should bight the bullet and calibrate your monitor properly with a reputable hardware device.

What looks the best on my screen might be the worst on someone else's and vice versa.

Everybody will probably have different brightness and colour settings on their monitor.

Fwiw, I have my monitor brightness calibrated to 80 cd/m2 which gives me a very close match between the brightness I see on my screen and on my prints. I do my own printing at home using my own custom printer and monitor profiles.

[BuckSkin]

For what I am seeing and to my eye, 1st = C and close second = D ----- but, I have no idea how true to color any of them are.

My recommendation, and it won't cost a cent = there are downloadable Color Cards that have a whole bunch of colors on the card; you can buy these cards as well.

The color numbers are listed for each color.

There are many ways one can use these cards and the correct color numbers to test various parts of the equation.

One would be to have the printers to print the unadulterated card and then compare the printed card to your original.

In my own opinion, as-delivered desktop monitors are going to be pretty darn close without any calibration.

Laptops are a completely different story; they are like those useless vehicle mirrors that say "things ain't where they look like they are"


Physical storebought color card:

www.amazon.com/Pixel-Perfect-Camera-Colour-Correction/dp/B07VCTWR5Q/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=color+card&qid=1637397732&sr=8-4

Note: every Charlotte K. Lowrie camera book that I have ever bought included a color card almost identical to the one linked to; if you are going to buy a card anyway, buy the book for very little more and get a card in the deal; I have bought second hand books on EBay for $3.99 shipped that still had the card inside.

Downloadable color cards:

cream.sourceforge.net/ColorCard.pdf

All sorts of FREE color and printer checking images:

www.northlight-images.co.uk/printer-test-images/

Here is a really good one:

web.archive.org/web/20160412132148/http://www.colour-science.com/quality%20test%20tools/test%20files/test%20files%20overview.htm

[caspa]

Nov 20, 2021 8:50:30 GMT BuckSkin said:

...

In my own opinion, as-delivered desktop monitors are going to be pretty darn close without any calibration.

...

In my experience, most desktop monitors have the straight out of the box brightness set much closer to the maximum than the minimum and is the main reason why people ask "Why are my prints too dark?".

[caspa]

Nov 20, 2021 6:05:54 GMT pontiac1940 said:

...
So I'd like to know what you see when you look at these images. Of these five copies of the same photo which displays the "best" exposure on your screen?   
...

This is confusing me because the exif data (when your images are viewed full size) says the exposure was actually the same for each of the 5 images - f/4, 1/160s.

Are you really asking which image lightness looks the best? - which is actually a totally different question. 

If yes, then the responses you get will depend and vary according to the responders' monitor brightness settings which will all be different.

For example, if someone has a very high monitor brightness setting then the darkest image will probably look the best whereas someone with a low brightness setting might say the lightest image in your set looks best.

And you could easily get selections of any of the images in between the lightest and darkest depending on  the viewer's monitor brightness setting, so I don't see what you are aiming to achieve/deduce from this "survey".

---

** On a side note - I see in your signature you have the full PS.  That would greatly increase the chances of getting a good match between what you see on screen and the lab's prints.

Ask the lab to send you their printer profile for the printer/ink/paper combination they will use to print your order.  You can then use that printer profile to soft proof your image using PS (PSE users can do the same soft proofing using Elements+).  Display the original and soft proof copy in adjacent windows and match them by adjusting the soft proof copy as required.  Then save the soft proof copy as a jpeg (and make sure you embed the working colour space you used to create the image in PS into the exif) and send it to the print lab with instructions to not edit the jpeg image before printing.

Since you used their actual printer profile to soft proof then the print they send back to you should be at least very close to what you saw on your screen.

Good luck and let us know how you went 

[hmca]

Just to answer your question.......

On my screen, C looks closest to the image that you had shared in Today's Picture. D looks lighter and B looks darker. A looks too dark and E looks too light.

But as BuckSkin pointed out

Nov 20, 2021 8:50:30 GMT BuckSkin said:

I have no idea how true to color any of them are.

Thanks for the links to the downloads, BuckSkin.

If I were you, in order to compare, I might try putting all of the examples on one page to be printed, or print individual small sized prints of each example and see which one is more accurate to you.

[pontiac1940]

Thanks all. I'll read some of caspa 's technical stuff later this evening.

The one sent for printing was C and like all prints is too dark. A,B and D,E were either over or underexposed in ACR. (BTW, the colors on my screen are nearly spot in to the actual quilt.) 

Nov 20, 2021 9:21:48 GMT caspa said:

the exposure was actually the same for each of the 5 images

That's because they are the same image with exposures altered in ACR to +/- ½ and 1 full f-stop.

Nov 20, 2021 9:01:34 GMT caspa said:

out of the box brightness set much closer to the maximum than the minimum and is the main reason why people ask "Why are my prints too dark?"

Thanks. It is the brightness that is concerning me. I made a couple of more prints at another lab and will try to go to the city and pick them up today. There might be a brightness issue with the monitor but I think the first lab screwed up and will be doing them again. 

Thanks,  

Clive

[Tpgettys]

FWIW, I would have elected to print D. I have come to distrust what I see on the screen in terms of brightness, I suspect because it is "actively illuminated", lit from within, whereas a print depends on reflected light. I often also have a very hard time seeing colors correctly when doing a jigsaw puzzle; what looks like yellow on the box looks brown on the pieces, until they are assembled and then they look yellow! Bottom line is I don't know how to see colors correctly; my brain extrapolates what the colors should be instead of registering what they actually are.

[pontiac1940]

Nov 20, 2021 9:21:48 GMT caspa said:

so I don't see what you are aiming to achieve/deduce from this "survey".

I was merely wondering which "exposure" looks "best" to people.  

[pontiac1940]

Nov 20, 2021 17:01:36 GMT Tpgettys said:

I often also have a very hard time seeing colors correctly when doing a jigsaw puzzle;

Our eyes can play with our brains.

The Confetti Illusion
These levitating spheres may appear red, purple or green at first glance, but in actuality, all 12 orbs are the same bland shade of beige.

[pontiac1940]

Nov 20, 2021 17:01:36 GMT Tpgettys said:

I suspect because it is "actively illuminated", lit from within, whereas a print depends on reflected light.

Yes for sure. Glowing screens are different than a flat piece of paper reflecting light. 

I am 95% sure this is a simple lab error vs a major screen brightness issue. (In addition to a couple of paper prints, and the calendar, I've also made three canvas prints of bears at two different labs and they are "correct.") 

Here is why I asked the question. All prints in the set were equally dark. Cut me some slack here ... this is an (old) cellphone photo of my screen and a print tuck into the screen frame. 
 

[Tpgettys]

Nov 20, 2021 17:38:34 GMT pontiac1940 said:

The Confetti Illusion
These levitating spheres may appear red, purple or green at first glance, but in actuality, all 12 orbs are the same bland shade of beige.

WOW! The illusion is very strong with me!

[BuckSkin]

Nov 20, 2021 17:01:36 GMT Tpgettys said:

what I see on the screen in terms of brightness, I suspect because it is "actively illuminated", lit from within, whereas a print depends on reflected light.

That is a good point and exactly right about the difference in where the light is coming from.

Once a person sees images on a monitor, old dull washed-out prints just fail in comparison.

[pontiac1940]

Nov 20, 2021 17:57:53 GMT Tpgettys said:

The illusion is very strong with me!

Almost spooky, eh. I made my own example 2 or 3 years ago. Will try to find it. 
It fits well with you jigsaw comment. Add to this (and for some reason I noticed it yesterday while walking) my eyes see colors a bit differently: one sees warmer and one sees cooler colors. 

[pontiac1940]

Nov 20, 2021 8:50:30 GMT BuckSkin said:

Here is a really good one:

This image looks perfect to me. White whites. Black blacks. The gray-scale bar at the bottom is spot on. All colors look "correct" to my old eyes.  
If the lab disputes my claim they've printed too dark, I am going to have them make a 5 X 7 print of this image. 
Thanks!