Photoshop Elements 12 png advice

[ipbr21054]

Morning,

Before i was hospitalised i was using PE9 but the system has now been updated to PE12

In 9 from memory i used to select part of the image & delete then i was able to save as png i believe,sorry my memory isnt what it was before hospital.

I am unable to do the same in 12

If the above makes sense please advise how i can do this in 12

Thansk

[Sepiana]

Hi ipbr21054,

First of all, no need to apologize. I wish you a steady and speedy recovery.

I also have PSE 12. Try this.

1. Make your selection.
2. Place your selection on its own layer (Ctrl-J, Cmmd-J on a Mac).
3. Delete the Background layer (Or click on the Eye icon to turn its visibility off).
4. Save your file as .png. Your .png file will have one layer (the selection) -- Layer 0.

[ipbr21054]

Many thanks all done.

Have a nice day

[Sepiana]

ipbr21054,

You are most welcome. Glad to hear "all done". 

Have a nice day too!

[Moby]

Hi ipbr21054.

I am using PSE 2020 but from memory PSE 12 worked the same way for saving transparent pixels to a png.  This is something I do reasonably regularly now when I want to use an icon or logo somewhere without the original's background.

You might or might not be aware that "Background" layers are slightly different to normal layers because background layers cannot have transparent pixels whereas normal layers can.  Hence Sepiana's suggested method earlier this thread.  If you delete a selection in a background layer, the deleted selection will be filled by whatever background colour you currently have set in your foreground/background colour selections in the toolbar. So, an easy way I normally delete a selection in a background layer to get transparent pixels is to first convert the background layer to a normal layer by simply clicking the "locked pixels" icon on the right hand side of the background layer (you can see the icon in Sepiana's image).  This converts the background layer to a normal layer.  I then make the selection I want to delete and either press the Delete key on the keyboard or Edit -> Delete from the PSE menu.  The deleted selection will now display transparent pixels.  I then save the image as a png to maintain the transparent pixels.  Saving as a jpeg fills the transparent pixels in the jpg with your current background colour.

Another way to convert the background layer to a normal layer is right-click the background layer and then select "Layer from background" in the pop-up menu.  As I mentioned earlier, what I describe above is PSE 2020 but from memory PSE 12 was the same.  Feel free to correct me if my memory has failed me.

[BuckSkin]

One point to keep in mind; once you change a normal "Background" to a layer, it sheds all EXIF and other data, such as IPTC, XMP, GPS, Keyword Tags, etc., and the all important date/time-stamp.

The Background governs whatever data the finished image will retain.

This is probably irrelevant to what you guys are doing; but, if it is important for the working file to retain the data, then it would be best to make your PNG from a copy.

[cats4jan]

Just recently, when deleting on a background layer, because I had not changed to a regular layer prior to erasing, the background color appeared rather than transparency.  Good thing I’ve been through this before, so knew exactly what was happening. It is very confusing to those who do not know this happens.

The warning about losing data, etc., is very important. That is why getting into the habit of always working on a copy is an important first step whenever you open a photo. I open a background layer and immediately save it with a new name. I close the original. 

[Moby]

Hi BuckSkin and cats4jan.

What you observed regarding the exif data is certainly not the case, at least exactly as you described, with PSE 2020 and to be honest I don't recall it being the case in PSE 12 but maybe it was 

With PSE 2020, changing the background layer to a normal layer has no effect by itself on the original exif data.  I just did a quick test in PSE 2020 for a given image.  I saved the image with the bottom layer set to "Background" as a jpeg.  I then changed the bottom layer from a background layer to a normal layer and again saved the image as a jpeg. Using ExifToolGui to view the exif data in both jpegs shows that the exif data is identical in both jpegs.

However............I then saved the image with the bottom layer set to a "normal" layer as a png and then again used ExifToolGui to compare the exif data from the jpeg with a "Background" layer with the exif in the  png file.  The only difference in exif data between the jpeg using a "background" type layer and the png using a "normal" layer is that the IPTC data that is in the jpeg is not in the png.  The XMP data and all the other camera data (aperture, shutter speed, etc etc etc) and ICC Profile data is all still there in the png as far as I can tell using ExifToolGui.  The png file also has some png specific exif data included.

In any case, if someone is also using the PSE Organizer, all the original EXIF data that was read from the originally imported image file and any subsequently assigned keywords are still in the Organizer database and can be outputted to exported image files regardless of whether the bottom layer is a background or normal layer.  The original exif data and any subsequent edits/additions to the meta data in the PSE Organizer are not affected in any way at all by any types of edits/changes made to the image data in the PSE Editor.

[BuckSkin]

Aug 24, 2022 6:55:01 GMT Moby said:

Hi BuckSkin and cats4jan.

What you observed regarding the exif data is certainly not the case, at least exactly as you described, with PSE 2020 and to be honest I don't recall it being the case in PSE 12 but maybe it was 

With PSE 2020, changing the background layer to a normal layer has no effect by itself on the original exif data.  I just did a quick test in PSE 2020 for a given image.  I saved the image with the bottom layer set to "Background" as a jpeg.  I then changed the bottom layer from a background layer to a normal layer and again saved the image as a jpeg. Using ExifToolGui to view the exif data in both jpegs shows that the exif data is identical in both jpegs.

However............I then saved the image with the bottom layer set to a "normal" layer as a png and then again used ExifToolGui to compare the exif data from the jpeg with a "Background" layer with the exif in the  png file.  The only difference in exif data between the jpeg using a "background" type layer and the png using a "normal" layer is that the IPTC data that is in the jpeg is not in the png.  The XMP data and all the other camera data (aperture, shutter speed, etc etc etc) and ICC Profile data is all still there in the png as far as I can tell using ExifToolGui.  The png file also has some png specific exif data included.

In any case, if someone is also using the PSE Organizer, all the original EXIF data that was read from the originally imported image file and any subsequently assigned keywords are still in the Organizer database and can be outputted to exported image files regardless of whether the bottom layer is a background or normal layer.  The original exif data and any subsequent edits/additions to the meta data in the PSE Organizer are not affected in any way at all by any types of edits/changes made to the image data in the PSE Editor.

I am glad it works for you; but, that has not been my experience with Elements 7, Elements 12, and Photoshop CS2.

[Moby]

Aug 24, 2022 8:13:40 GMT BuckSkin said:

I am glad it works for you; but, that has not been my experience with Elements 7, Elements 12, and Photoshop CS2.

No problem BuckSkin,  I understood your first post to mean it was not your experience so I don't see why you felt the need to effectively repeat yourself in your second post.

I don't doubt at all that you have observed the exif issues you described but I see michelb, a renowned guru on these types of PSE issues, had no problem with what I posted seeing that he "liked" my post.  So I am very confident that the issue you described is by no means a common issue amongst PSE users and so without knowing exactly what your computer setup is and what you did exactly prior to you observing the exif going awol, I can only hope you one day resolve the issue with your exif data going "missing".  Thinking logically, I don't see why/how Adobe would deliberately or accidentally let the changing of layer types from background to normal to somehow remove all exif data, which  I would see as a deal-breaking bug, be released to customers to purchase. 

Your blanket statement - "One point to keep in mind; once you change a normal "Background" to a layer, it sheds all EXIF and other data, such as IPTC, XMP, GPS, Keyword Tags, etc., and the all important date/time-stamp."  implies, at least to me, that your observation must also be true for at least all other PSE 12 and maybe all later version users which clearly is not true. 

If it's a genuine issue for you and you would like to find a reason and the solution for your issue, perhaps create a thread in the appropriate board on this forum and post a link to Dropbox, or something similar, containing an image file where you observe the exif data disappearing when you change the bottom layer from "Background" to "normal" and hopefully someone will be able to sort out the issue for you.

I'll leave it at that.  

[cats4jan]

A little "show and tell" - erasing -- background layer vs regular layer


After erasing, you need to always save as a png to preserve the transparent areas of your project
If I had saved this example as a jpg, the transparent area (the "hole") would've filled in with white.

[cats4jan]

Moby -

Sorry about the ambiguity - I was referring to the background color showing where I erased - not the exif data. I really don't know what happens with the exif data.  I don't really care what happens to it since I don't even know what it is. LOL.

I solve my issues by never working on originals...

I changed my post above to clarify.