Cropping in ACR

[pontiac1940]

Just following up on michelb 's comment. 

Dec 12, 2022 18:10:26 GMT michelb said:

I don't see a mention of the main advantage of the cropping in the ACR: It's non destructive.

I remain confused because when I tested this, the raw file was altered, i.e. cropped. This is not a big deal to me since I will continue to crop in PSE. Just curious if I am missing something.

Thanks.  

Clive

I cropped this "test" raw owl photo in ACR. Opened it in PSE and renamed it as a jpg. 



When the raw file was opened again in ACR the cropped raw file opened.  

[Sepiana]

Dec 18, 2022 5:57:19 GMT pontiac1940 said:

Dec 12, 2022 18:10:26 GMT michelb said:

I don't see a mention of the main advantage of the cropping in the ACR: It's non destructive.

I remain confused because when I tested this, the raw file was altered, i.e. cropped.  
Just curious if I am missing something.
When the raw file was opened again in ACR the cropped raw file opened.

I can confirm that michelb is absolutely correct. The non-cropped RAW file is still there and you can "re-open" it in ACR. 

This is the step you are missing.

Dec 16, 2022 22:22:45 GMT michelb said:

To get back to the original version, first select the crop icon (on the right, above the red eye one), click on the lock on the right of 'preset' to 'unlock' the dimensions ratio, or chose the preset 'Full' or click on the the icon on the right of the preset choice. The presets 'full' and 'unlocked' are important for a non desctructive workflow.

[michelb]

What I don't understand is:

"I cropped this "test" raw owl photo in ACR. Opened it in PSE and renamed it as a jpg."

When you click 'Open' in the ACR dialog, you are telling the plugin to process the raw data and transmit the result to the editor in photo format (internally pdf or tiff, that does not matter, but it's no longer a raw format). The file has been processed, the colors have been recovered, the tones have been enhanced from the linear curve, AND the crop has been applied. So, the result saved from the editor is already cropped, whether it's jpeg, tiff or psd.

'raw' is not an acronym, it just means raw = unprocessed. There is no color information and what is measured is the intensity of light on each pixel spot. That intensity depends on the amount of light, and that amount is not perceived by the eye proportionnally. Each camera model has its own rules/format and that is considered proprietary data which no software converter can edit.

There comes the 'parametric' solution: never changing the raw data, but adding a processing recipe as a xmp sidecar file or including it in the metadata section of photo formats like jpeg or psd. That parametric editing is necessarily non-destructive.

So, to take advantage of that feature, you must re-open your raw file, not any already processed version. That's why most raw shooters with PSE use the organizer and always save their editing 'versions' in 'version sets'. Just like in the silver age, photographers kept their negatives to be able to re-process without loss.

Now, how to get back to the original raw file? It's always there if you did not overwrite it. The difference is that the 'recipe' has been saved, whether you clicked 'Done' or 'Open'. Clicking 'Done' just saved that recipe without producing a 'cooked' result in photo format. Using a 'parametric' editing with Lightroom or ACR means that you don't need to output any 'cooked' results, only save the 'recipe'. Or creating systematically an output as a 'version set' is also non-destructive workflow, since the original raw is still unchanged and uncropped.

Edit:

Another trap: you can open and edit jpeg files in ACR, that does not mean that the jpeg file is a "raw" file. Only that ACR can edit non-destructively such photo formats with its own tools. That is very important to be able to use the same tools for raw as well as non raw files. Particularly to be able to batch edit many files in the same session.

[pontiac1940]

Sepiana and michelb
Thank you both for your comments. I've got it now. Again, this is not important to me as I will always crop in PSE. But at least I know now. Thank to you both.

See images below. I opened an unedited raw file in ACR, cropped it, opened in PSE and saved as a jpg and closed. When I opened the original raw file it opened in the cropped version: the crop and assorted levels edits were all as I originally edited the raw file. Now, if I click on the crop icon in ACR then the original displays as you said. Just like double clicking the contrast or shadows sliders....they revert to unedited levels. See images below.  

Comments inside Michel's post. 
When you click 'Open' in the ACR dialog, you are telling the plugin to process the raw data and transmit the result to the editor in photo format (internally pdf or tiff, that does not matter, but it's no longer a raw format). Yes, understood. The file has been processed, the colors have been recovered, the tones have been enhanced from the linear curve, AND the crop has been applied. So, the result saved from the editor is already cropped, whether it's jpeg, tiff or psd. Yes. 

'raw' is not an acronym, it just means raw = unprocessed. Yes, always knew that ... that's why I [normally] do not capitalized it as many do. As you said, it is raw like an uncooked beef roast.  There is no color information and what is measured is the intensity of light on each pixel spot. That intensity depends on the amount of light, and that amount is not perceived by the eye proportionnally. Each camera model has its own rules/format and that is considered proprietary data which no software converter can edit.

There comes the 'parametric' solution: never changing the raw data, but adding a processing recipe as a xmp sidecar file Yes, I sometimes intentionally delete the xmp file associated with one specific raw image if I want to re-edit it (say) along with several other "sister" images" (although it is easy to overwrite the original edits in ACR anyway,)  ... 

Edit: Another trap: you can open and edit jpeg files in ACR, that does not mean that the jpeg file is a "raw" file. I often open jpgs in ACR. It is very handy for fine tuning a jpg image. Only that ACR can edit non-destructively such photo formats with its own tools. That is very important to be able to use the same tools for raw as well as non raw files. Particularly to be able to batch edit many files in the same session.

Opened raw (ARW) file a second time .... the crop displays until...


... until the crop icon is clicked and then the original shows behind the crop outline.